Charley
Forum Replies Created
-
Thank you Danielle! 🙂
I think it’s like acting. I remember listening to an incredible interview with the woman who played the oldest aunt on the Sabrina teenage witch show. She’d been acting for 20 years or something, steady but hadn’t achieved “fame.” She considers herself a working actress. I can tell you she was pleased with her career and had a lot of fun doing what she loved. Her take on “fame” was not that she wasn’t pretty enough or talented enough but just had not found the role that would catapult her to beyond kardashian level fame. She also tended towards stage work which is its own demon and rarely provides great fame since its only accessible to the audience, it’s not televised. She did what she loved and made a life for herself with her talents and desire. That story will always stick with me,
So in regards to beauty and pole, I think that you will find that is common amongst all upper echelon of performers. I mean we wear lots of stage make up and sparkles so of course everyone looks gorgeous! I think everyone looks beautiful when they perform with their eye lashes and outfits and shoes! And that goes for all body types. That’s just performing. We all look amazing. Nobody goes on stage with no make up in sweats, lol!
I also think you can be a pole model and not be “famous”. I look around here and fb and see so much beauty and under rated dancing its amazing. There isn’t enough time in the day to watch all the great performers. When I did GND Chicago, I hadn’t heard of many of the girls and I was freaking blown away and am sad I didn’t get to see every performance through its completion. They made me laugh and cry.
Th thing I love about pole is that there isn’t a particular beauty mold. There is a recipe for championships no doubt. It not because of an agenda but because at that level you kinda need to tough and strong.
Ill also add our high ranking dancers all love pole and women. They want to empower all of us and each other. At no point would any of them feel good thinking we are feeling bad because of their skin deep beauty. Each champ I’ve met or worked with has made ME personally feel great.
-
At the end of the day after spending much time with a few champions and high ranking professionals I can tell you they struggle like we do. They have fear, insecurities and also feel the need to keep winning to stay on top. It’s a lot of pressure for them too.
Consider the day in the life of a champion. You aren’t just poling for fun anymore, you’ve spent money and lots of it to compete, train, be outfitted, etc. You’re struggling to be better than your last performance, especially if it was award winning. You are working to stay in top of every new move and innovate new things, the things you’ve already showcased are being done now worldwide amongst your peers, you have to come with something new now. Your value as a dancer has become your market, read financial, value. Not on,y are you training for your competitions but now you’re marketing yourself for workshops once you get to said city for said competition and that’s only if that competition will even allow you teach workshops. Workshops take time away from your practice but you need them to survive and pay for your competition. Now you’re being asked to judge smaller competitions. One more thing to balance. If you’re not super known yet few people will book you. That means you might be trying to balance a real job and pole like Natasha Wang or Nadia Sharif did. So now, you’re working, training at night…and not just pole. Contortion. Dance. Yoga. Gym. Pole. So now you’ve gotten known enough, you’re in a world comp, you’re paying for that trip. You’re training others on pole and trying to fit in your own practice. You want to win because who doesn’t? Your hard work should mean something, right? You go. You dance. You don’t place well. Now you’re back to the grindstone wondering if the loss has cost you anything financially. Are you still great? Does this change the way you are viewed?
It’s all the same feelings no matter where you’re at. Am I good enough? Am I talented? Can I make a living doing this? What did I do wrong? Why don’t the judges like me? I’m working harder than ever before but not getting better. What else do i need to do? Am I pretty enough? Is my body strong enough, good enough, bendy enough, etc?
We are all women.
I’m the community theater of pole dancing. Not good enough to be an actress but this is what I love to do so I teach some classes, share my love for others and pole, find some small performances or comps and try. I keep trying because community theater has value too. I’m doing the same things the pros are just on a much smaller playing field.
I hope that perspective helps.
-
As a competitor:
I’ve personally worked with Phoenix, Kelly and Leigh Ann on various pieces and I loved them. I also provide choreography for Claire Beer and my students. Prices range from $150-50/hr. It depends on how you want to work and their availability. I skyped with Leigh Ann and Phoenix and liked the instant feedback. I do phone convos with Kelly and like that too because I look and see what she’s saying. The price very much depends on what you need and what you already have. I always come up with my own stuff then get tweaking and combo advice plus help with stage presence, fluidity and trouble shooting timing and intro/outros and costume. I never compete without a trainer, I get too much additional training, inspiration and help with problem moves, combos, etc. that helps me overall.As a choreographer:
Now, for some people I do provide the entire piece because some are great performers but not great at coming up with things on their own. I have 2 students I work with for shows. 1 is very good at performing and being on stage but not great with creativity or putting it together, I do every nuance for her and she owns it like no other because I only give her what fits her, the other will do privates to work out a couple things but already has the whole thing in her head. They are just different people with different talents. Giving someone an idea to work with is to me is as valid as giving someone a combo. Most people will take your ideas that had for them because you know them and make it theirs anyway. I love being the idea person. I can be creative in a whole new way with a body that can do things mine can’t. It’s like playing Barbie. 🙂 -
Interesting topic. I’ve had this conversation in my head many times. Being on the inside of competitions I’ve always analyzed my own constant failings at them from my ability to be even chosen to my ability to place well. While I don’t think it’s my body or face that exempts me from procuring titles and success it’s my level of ability, I do see what you are talking a out. I suffer from b face. I tend to seem unapproachable because I’m socially terrified (it takes all I have to run around and mingle at events, it’s really hard when you suffer from anxiety) and therefor I’m not very good at making eye contact with judges, I just assume they’ll hate whatever I do, I can’t dance on stage the way I dance at home and half the time, when I’m submitting something I choke, I get scared and generally do not get favor with online judges. A lot of it is my b face, a lot of it is my anxiety, but most of it is that I’m doing competition level dances. I get to caught up in my story and not enough in my tricks. I’m not doing fonjis and exciting moves and that seems to be what sells. In order to do those things you will see a common body type, it’s just not as possible to perform that level without being extremely fit. I think that’s why we don’t see as much diversity body wise amongst high ranking pole dancers. Also consider lines, extension and form – those things look nicer aesthetically on longer bodies, small but proportionate bodies, etc. it’s much easier to make a simple move look gorgeous when you have long legs or a thin waist. We all struggle to find moves that work on all levels for our body. Also think about how many high ranking dancers have a background in something else. They’ve been training their bodies for this their whole life. They have an advantage of body awareness that someone like myself does not have, they know which angles to do things to produce the best looking trick. It all goes together.
I’m inspired by our high ranking pole dancers. It takes a lot of work to get there and for some it may be unattainable due to genetics, time, age, ability, etc. I think it’s important to realize these professionals are just that professional. It’s okay not to attain super poler status, attaining that comes with great sacrifice. This is why I look to all of you as we’ll as professionals for inspiration and hope. This journey heals us inside and out. We are all super stars.
-
Yup, yup! I’ll be there! :). Can’t wait to meet you!
-
Welcome! Michigan has a ton of great polers and an awesome community! Welcome to SV – you're going to be addicted to this site!!!!
-
No, no, no! Don't wait! Veena's lessons are designed for everyone!!! I recommend starting with the transitions and simple combo's – wait on spins and climbs – Veena advises this in the intro video. There are so many awesome things you can be doing right now that will help with health goals and make you feel super sexy.
-
Also Skittles and Phoenix do skype privates for competitions. I also do comp skyping for what it's worth. (I'm currently working on a cool piece for someone in Vegas via FaceTIme) LOVE technology. I've done a skype with Phoenix before – it was awesome!
-
'i don't know if this will help you at all. Recently I did a comp, knew I was going to be doing something WAY out of my comfort zone and skill set and basically knew I was going to suck. With that said, I realized it would be a better experience to suck it up and try something new and fail rather than do the same old, same old and perhaps fail but with a less likely percentage.
I stopped thinking about the competitive aspects ALL TOGETHER and focused on the show. That relieved me alot! I had something I wanted to do for *me.* So do it for you, focus on you, do the routine YOU want to do not the one you think will win, pick the song YOU love, the costume that makes YOU feel great and give it your all. If you do all of that – then the outcome won't matter.
I sucked my last comp, I totally went too far out of my box, I messed up almost everything, didn't place – I don't even care where I did place because even though it was a clumsy mess – I'm step closer to finding something new in me.
Does that make any sense? lol
-
Is there an update? What happened?
As for the topic it's a gray area and without knowing what the competition really is I can't say so I'll generalize.
The only reason I could possible see not allowing strippers is if the rules also stated that "no one who has been paid to dance professionally" was allowed in making it truly amateur. I also think that if a competition is going to make a hard line about professional performers they should also not allow anyone to compete who has already done so and maybe even extend it to not allowing those who have performance experience. IF that's the reason.
On the other side of it, some organizations don't want to be represented with exotic dancers and are truly focused on the health and fitness aspects. I think it's ok for organizations to make rules and to protect their identity. Think about it, you're running a show and the winner is a porn star – your family finds out – an organization in pole is still just a single person. That's WHY this is really complicated. Can you imagine trying to explain it to your uptight parents? Kinda hard. The BIGGEST issue is not being upfront about your thoughts and feelings about it and then telling someone to change jobs – kinda late for that.
It's really a struggle in our industry to see all sides of it. The nice thing is we have a lot of options as far as competitions go and I think we have to realize while we may not agree with castrating pole dancing from it's exotic roots – that may not be the real intention behind an organizations thinking-they might just have to explain to their husband, mother, child, grandma, etc why they allowed someone from the adult entertainment world (still working) to win the high trophy. Winners are a reflection of organizers whether we like it or not.
With that said, we should be moving towards more professional competitions that don't include background checks. We need to focus on the actual art and sport and not where/how someone uses pole dancing. I think it's important for everyone reading this to realize we all have a purpose in pole and all versions of pole are great. It's also important to remeber, I as an organizer am always sure to do this, that it's really easy to assume something about someone because of what you see on a piece of paper – it's a whole other ball game to walk in their shoes and understand the choices they made.
Personally – I'd rather see better defined divisions based on skill level as opposed to time/experience simply because there are girls who have worked for 5 years to get to great and some who've worked for a year to be great. Time/experience is relative it should always be about an level playing field skill wise. 🙂
-
Ownership of humans seems to be a common thing in the arts. I find it terribly unprofessional that these feelings were even shared with you. It can certainly make you feel a little quezy when your students begin to venture out, there is a bond you make and a friendship. When you've been the person who has watched a particular student grow up, it can feel "empty nest" ish when they move one. But that's the instructors problem.
We can't be everything to everyone. I've taken a step back from commercial studio instructing over the last year and it has been AMAZING! I no longer feel the pressure to keep up class #'s and feel so much freer when talking about the pole businesses in my area and recommend them all the time.
As I took this year off from studio teaching I began finding myself taking classes and working on getting things on both sides, taking workshops and really participating beyond just my few students and online. It's been great. Everyone is different, they teach different things, the classes focus on different skills and I think I feel more complete having the freedom to work with lots of people.
Ultimately this kind of behavior can lead to you the client feeling like a golden goose instead of an individual. I'd probably take some time off from that studio and continue training in other supportive environments.
-
David is a great teacher! Super fun! Love him! And as has been mentioned there is Pole Fitness Studio with Fawnia – personally I would check out both. Fawnia, though I've never met her personally, seems SUPER sweet and nice and she has done a lot for our industry. I'd have to visit both places for sure.
-
The box stage is ok but it's short and doesn't have a lot of room. It's great for burlesque shows, I've seen Gravity Plays Favorites do amazing shows with it but I do think the XSL is the best stage product you can get for versatility, ease of use and height. 🙂
-
I met my bf in a bar, you know where all great relationships start! I was 20 and couldn't legally drink in the states and I was with a girlfriend and as we drove around I heard a bar in Windsor, ON was doing free piercings so I begged her to come with so we could get a piercing.
Well, it ended up the bar they were doing the event at was a meat market and my friends refused to go so we settled for a club I had been to just a few months prior with another guy. As we were walking up the street I saw a long haired, rocker hunk walk in front of me – he ended up holding the door for me. I melted. I told my friend that was the guy, the rest of my life guy. I didn't have the courage to talk to him but he befriended a useful tool and so I danced on a speaker in front of him in the tightest snakeskin pants imaginable – Rob kinda ignored me but his new tool didn't so I beckoned the guy over to dance then said I was tired lets go meet your friends! Then I got to meet Rob and we started talking, he walked me to the car, kissed me, gave me his number which I LOST but thankfully he called me the next the day and the rest is really history. 🙂
-
Every single time I perform I am a ball of nerves, in fact I don't like to perform at all. Once you hear your music, your body will go into auto pilot, I promise. You won't blank, you've run the routine, know the song, trust me your body knows what to do when it needs to do it. You will be great, your performance will be a blur and you'll want to do it all over again 😀
-
My bf kinda hates pole in general but respects what it has done for me. He will help and spot me when I need it, film the random dance if I need a filmer, etc. The biggest issue is the negativity, Rob stays fairly nuetral about things so that I don't have to feel bad about it. I think if he can't say anything nice he shouldn't say anything at all. You guys might want to have a heart to heart and just let him know his negativity is hurtful, let him know you get that it's not HIS thing but that you still need his support. 🙂
-
All I can really add is that I have been poling for 6 years and I cannot always get this move, it's really hard, pure muscle.
A few tips I've found along the way that helped me was tummy up towards the ceiling, bend the bottom arm so you can push and pull up with your top arm. Start with knees bent to lessen the load too.
You can always work this reverse too which I recommend. Slow your descent coming down, nice and controlled. 🙂 I hope that helps.
-
I'd be pretty offended at first. Echoing what's been said, he just doesn't really get it. I have had students tell me that their husbands told them their floor work wasn't sexy, lol. You should ask him what he was expecting.
AS far as the strip club correlation, men who have been to clubs do sometimes make the connection but I think it's more about the overall look and feel of the dance vs moves you and the girls were doing. Exotic dancers generally don't do a lot of tricks for a myriad of reasons (pole is slippy, pole isn't safe, pole tricks don't always equal $$.) I've never seen a beginner exotic dancer start out looking any different than pole students, either. We all start somewhere, we all feel awkward dancing around the cold steel pole. Heck, I see exotic dancers who have been dancing for awhile still look uncomfortable with the pole – progress and comfort are individual. Some of the exotic dancers I know who really aren't into pole also make big bucks because they love to chat, talk and hustle.
-
My father came across my videos and was extremely disappointed and didn't like what he saw. I don't think he looks anymore and I decided that I would only post family approved videos on my fb page and have trained him to look there for videos but I still get worried and paranoid now. It depends on what you post though, I have some raunchy videos. Not that I am ashamed of them but when your dad calls you because he found a video of you grinding on the floor – an uncomfortable conversation ensues, not one I enjoyed and it did leave me feeling bad. I don't even pole under my real name and he still found it.
-
I'm going though this student phase in my journey – I like honest critique, do help me make things better, but don't leave me feeling as if I have no business pole dancing…which is kind of how I feel currently, give me the tools and information to help me improve but please tell me I should keep going. Small things are still things.
-
I think it takes up to 6 weeks to get them. She has to make them and it does take a while. I would suggest trying her through FB. Email forms on websites can be twitchy, maybe she didn't get it?
-
I recommend Infinifty. I've taught workshops there and I'm good friends with Val the owner. She runs multilevel classes which is great because you can learn at your own pace. The girls are an amazing team. I love how supportive they are of one another. You'll have a great time and Val is a great teacher.
-
I think they need to start making more durable bullets so kitties of all kinds don't break them 😉 https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_surprised.gif
-
@Marle LOL! Yes! We left the bullet on the night stand and the cat stepped on the controls and turned it on, after that he was a little obsessed with and everytime we left it out he'd find it and eventually broke it. lol.
-
Additionally, to repeat what Mary Ellyn said…event organizers have vendor booths that need to be filled, our job is to sell those booths to businesses who will provide products our demographic will like so that both the attendee and vendor are happy. This is very difficult. Sex toys actually sell very well at pole events, with the main reason I think being, that most pole dancers are a bit more open minded and most people use sex toys/products if they are having sex and most people are. Pure Romance for example sells high quality products that do not break easily and they also have a bath and body line – which I have/still use to this day but the only way for many of us to get our hands on these products is to go to a party. There is no Pure Romance store where you can replace your favorite vibrator or grab lube. This makes events (pole or not because I have seen them at Bridal Shows as well) the perfect place to sell some stuff.
*I have not tried any of the sex toys from Lover's Lane so I cannot comment on their quality but Pure Romance makes an awesome silver bullet. Mine just finally crapped out but that because the cat kept turning it on – sorry TMI.
