History/Industry Question

[Elyse Hauke]

Well, for the longest time x-pole, platinum stages and Lil’ Minx made only made a 50mm poles. There are a lot more brands of poles now then there were then but these were three readily available in the U.S.

There are different schools of thought on smaller diameter poles but initially when the 45 mm became available, most polers agreed that working on a 50 mm pole to start with developed better strength before moving to a 45 but this was very subjective.

It is my understanding that research has shown that the use of smaller diameter poles results in far less injury over time to certain muscle groups. I will try and dig up the article I last read about it, its been a long time since I have seen it. Perhaps I have it saved somewhere?

At any rate, for leg intensive moves, 50 mm tends to be more comfortable, while smaller diameters such as 45’s and 38’s make hand grip and more advanced moves more stable. I learned on and owned 50’s then moved to 45’s. Overall I prefer the 45, but it really comes down to personal preference. There is nothing wrong with using a 50 mm.

I think most people will tend to agree that the industry standard changed due to hand sizing. People with small or more petite hands often had much more more difficulty on a 50mm than those with bigger hands and there were a lot of complaints about being able to grip the pole. As a whole, since studios and competitions have so many different sized users, it was considered more practical sense to use 45 as the standard.

As far as 38’s go, I don’t know much about the history of pole sizing in Australia. As far as I know that is just the size that was typically used over there. 50 to 45 isn’t a huge difference, but its still noticeable. I have had the pleasure of working on a 38 and all I say is WOW! for handgrip and owWW!!!! for leg moves! A 38 made me feel like an absolute beast!!!! I felt like I could hold on forever. So there are a lot benefits to learning on a 38. With each size there are benefits and cons but all in all it comes down to personal preference when choosing a pole for home use. Oh, and we haven’t even begun to discuss pole finishes! lol!

To answer your last question, Australia (at the time I entered pole world) was a forerunner in pole art in that it had become a lot more mainstream there before it did in the U.S. I came in late 2009 and although pole had gained a lot popularity it was still very taboo and not the mainstream so ultimately most of what came from the U.S came from dancers in clubs. In the U.S, the first organized competition as I understand it was held in 09′ i think? So ultimately I think that once Australia was definitely a leader of trends, but now that pole has become more mainstream worldwide, I don’t necessarily think that is the case. We have seen a large new wave of tricks and ability levels that have far surpassed what we thought was the “ultimate” back in 2010. So many moves and combos have been created and with the influx of formerly trained dancers, gymnasts etc, things have soared to new heights, excuse the pun.

Please note, Pole dance is still relatively new, its not like we have a history book or encyclopedia and I don’t claim to be an expert That being said, I have answered as correctly as I can based on my experience and what I have learned in pole world over the last few years. Hope this helps.

Just thinking out loud here, but if pole dance is still around in 100 years I wonder if we will have pole historians? Wouldn’t that be something?!

[Elyse Hauke]

Good grief, please excuse the typos I typed this on my phone and autocorrect was not very kind to me.

[Veena]

Long story short….50s were standard because that’s what we in the US and Canada saw in strip clubs, some clubs had even bigger poles made out of all kinds of stuff. But venders like Platinum stages who provided poles for a lot of clubs manufactured 50mm. So that’s what we who decided to teach it used, because that’s all we knew existed. As we started meeting polers from around the world dancers realized that the smaller the pole the more grip control and often more extension and mobility you can get out of a move. Pole companies are always wanting to sell more and introduce new product so now you have a selection. 38s are awesome, but my 40s are my babies right now.

I still remember when the first 45mm was made available in the US, I also remember being one of the first few here in the US to use the 45 TG finish 🙂
This was in Dec, 2009!

[Neesy118]

I’m really loving the Pole Parlour podcasts as well!

[33barbwire]

Finally coming back to this after listening to a few more Pole Parlour episodes. Hellcat and Veena, thanks for your input! I’m definitely looking forward to learning more about the history of pole. As it starts becoming more and more common I hope some pole historians start popping out of the woodwork. At the very least, I’ll try to compile what I can on a casual basis.

I’m also crazy excited for this to come out!

http://www.fistfulofsteeldocumentary.com/

Also, are there any pole/aerial magazines that anyone here just raves about?

[moonflower]

I’m 4’10” with tiny hands and I started off on 50mm. I was also not taught gun grip at first. This combination caused a lot of wrist grief for me. On a 50 mm, my hands wrapped barely half way around the pole. With this shit grip, on the top hand, it meant I was relying on pinching strength to stay on UNLESS I bring my wrist off neutral and “overgrip” the top hand. Over gripping the top hand caused a tendency to rotate around the pole, and as a result, this hurt my bottom wrist as well since I was not using a gun grip at the time. It was a very shitty time for both my wrists.

It was on the recommendation from a sports therapists that I switched to a smaller pole size and learn to gun grip my bottom hand. Lots of issues cleared up after that.

I actually had an instructor from the first studio I went to tell me that I was having trouble because I wasn’t strong enough and that meant I should keep practicing on thicker poles until I get stronger. I’m so glad I stopped listening to her. She didn’t understand that my hands are so small that they LITERALLY CAN NOT hold the pole with a normal grip with out putting my wrists off neutral. The only way I can push/pull on a 500mm is with a CUP grip. Moving to a 45mm saved my wrists.

[33barbwire]

Moonflower – can you explain gun grip?

That’s awesome you went to a sports therapist and they set you right!

[Veena]

It’s the grip I use for the bottom hand, for all things split grip. Both upright and inverted. You’ll see it in every lesson here that has to do with split grip. Here is what I think is the first into to this grip https://www.studioveena.com/lessons/view/54a83644-20fc-4db5-8632-73f00a9aa0eb

[Claire Moon]

Tangent: In regards to Hellcat’s comments about injury and pole size, I think the idea is that if someone lacking grip strength uses a 50mm (or any pole that’s “too big” for their hand) , they tend to over-grip more to compensate lack of strength and risk straining muscles in the forearm. I have no literature evidence to back this up, only theoretical/anecdotal.

[Elyse Hauke]

Barbwire- what moonflower is referring to and what you will see in veena’s lessons is the pointer finger of the bottom hand (lower bracket) is pointing downward forming a parallel line with the pole when performing moves/spins where a split grip is used. It resembles the hand position used when shooting a gun. You may have also heard this referred to as a trigger finger. This hand position is important to use as it keeps your wrist in a stable neutral position that AIDS in preventing hyper-extension. It is the best way to protect your wrists as well as the tendons in the hand and the forearm muscles through the elbow joint.

[Elyse Hauke]

Edit*- As veena’s mentioned this hand position also applies to the upper arm (top bracket) for split grip hold moves.

[Elyse Hauke]

Wrist strain and hyperextension can be so frustrating. I have had a problem with it on and off for a long time (non-pole injury) but for some reason when I sleep I curl my hands into my chest where my fingertips nearly touch the insides of my wrists when I sleep and continually strain my wrists by hyperextension. Still on the hunt for a wrist brace that is comfortable to wear at night to stop myself from doing this. I really should be working with my left as the lower bracket, but I am terrible about training a lot of things on both sides. Shame on me! lol!

[33barbwire]

Thanks for the clarification, y’all. I remember what you mean now. I try that grip most of the time, and I struggle with my lower hand in split grip no matter what I do. On one side, I can barely take my feet off the floor. And regarding overgripping on a 50mm YESSSSS I DO THAT OOPS – I know I do, it’s just so difficult to not do it, even though I’m so much stronger than I used to be. 🙁

I went through a period last summer where my forearms/wrists were achy so often that I *swore* I was developing carpal tunnel or something, but eventually believed the soreness was just my wrists recovering and getting conditioned to the frequency of my pole practices. Maybe I did have an injury? Still though, I love the tricks that require split grip, so I hope I get both sides strong enough pretty soon. And also upgrade to a 45mm when I can.

Hellcat – good luck with finding the right brace!

[Claire Moon]

33barbwire, you might have had an injury. I had that issue and my doctor diagnosed two issues, torn muscle in my forearm and also certain forearm muscles were larger than others which caused others to weaken and be more susceptible to injury. It was a hot mess! I did two months of physical therapy! Boo over gripping! I’m a lot stronger now but I totally still do it if I’m not paying attention.

[Elyse Hauke]

Barbwire- Thank you! I am sure I will find something. Its just a matter finding something that fits correctly and doesn’t cause chaffing. As far as the pain in your forearms goes, if the pain is emanating from the tendons or muscles down the forearm from the elbow joint it is most likely tendonitis or better known in that area as “tennis elbow;” generally the result of overuse. I suffered from this on and off for the first 8 to 10 months of poling because yes, I too have been guilty of overtraining.

Once my forearms became stronger and I lost a bit of weight, it started to ease up and eventually go away completely. Having been off the pole for a long a time, I was concerned that I might experience it again but fortunately it hasn’t been an issue thus far.

Mueller makes a great elbow strap/support that I found to be very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-Tennis-Elbow-1-Count-Package/dp/B0027VOS8U/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1464299597&sr=8-5&keywords=mueller+elbow+strap

The best exercises I have found to help strengthen, relieve and prevent the pain and discomfort are:

1.) using hand grip strengtheners (something like this) http://www.amazon.com/Strengthener-Grippers-Musicians-Rehabilitation-Exercising/dp/B018GUBLWG/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1464299786&sr=8-18&keywords=hand+grip+strengthener. Also, under the conditioning tab, please see Veena’s lessons! Watch: “Shoulder Rotation” all the way through “Radial Wrist Lift.” I threw in the rotator cuff lessons for good measure due to the fact that rotator cuff injuries are very common and are also the result of overuse in poling. Since you are already focusing on the lower arms, it is best to also take a minute to devote to your shoulder health as well.

2.)Forearm stretches- Please see Veena’s Forearm Extensor and Forearm Flexor videos. These can also be done from a sitting position on your knees on the floor, place both arms on the floor in front of you fingers pointing away from the body with widely spread fingers. You can also stretch the muscles of the inner forearms by placing place the hands so that your fingers are pointing are pointing towards your body and with fingers widely spread. Gently and I mean ever so gently lean in to increase the stretch if needed. This can also be done from a standing position using the pole. http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/kneeling-forearm-stretch

3.) Also, during every warm-up, cool down (I sometimes do this during the day, if I feel my forearms and wrists are sore or tight)- create circular motions with your wrists while spreading your fingers and moving your fingers in the along with with the circular the same circular motion.
My absolute favorite is something I first learned from Karol Helms years ago is finger flicking. It really helps!!!! With your hands facing downward, bring the tips of your fingers to the tips of your thumbs (looks like you are making the shape of an “o” with your hands. Create a slight amount of pressure between the tips of your fingers. Then flick your fingers outward firmly so the are widely spread as you extend like you are flicking water droplets off your hands. Repeat this motion, in the reverse direction as well. I typically do about 10 repetitions in each direction for both hands.

Please check here on Veena’s lessons. I am sure Veena may have already included these in her lessons somewhere in the hand/wrist/forearm section under the conditioning tab. I have not yet completed them all, so my apologies for not sending you to an example of what I have described here directly. Also, here is a page that gives some instruction on some more exercises that you may find helpful for the hands, wrists and elbows. Some variations of the exercises/stretches I have noted are also given on this page. Lastly, give yourself ample time for rest and healing. It can be so difficult, believe me, I know! But, being regimented about rest days is just as important as being regimented with your workouts. I hope this helps!